Penny Forward Transcript: Part 2 Homebound Horizons, Love Leading the Way with Billy and Nancy Irwin

As Penny Forward is celebrating the holiday season, we are pulling up from the archive a previously played episode that is not on our current podcast feed, with a newly added transcript.


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24 hours


Welcome to the second half of a two-part episode of the Penny Forward Podcast. In this continuation, Nancy and Billy Irwin discuss their professional journeys and the experience of buying their first home. Nancy speaks about her career shift to educating visually impaired students and the challenges of balancing work with her master’s degree. Billy shares his story of securing a job at Clemson University, underscoring the value of support and perseverance. The couple also delves into the home buying process, the obstacles they overcame regarding accessibility, and the advantages of homeownership. They conclude with their future aspirations, highlighting their positive outlook and readiness to tackle new challenges.


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    Chris: Welcome to the Penny Forward podcast. Penny Forward is a community of people who are blind, their families, and friends, who share an interest in financial independence. Join us now, as we meet people like us, who are working towards their own success.


    Chris: This is part 2 of a two-part interview with Billy and Nancy Erwin. In Part one, we learned about their early lives and careers, and how they met. In part 2, we are going to hear more about their careers, and what it was like for them to move, and buy their first home, all at the same time.


    Chris: Nancy, it sounds like Billy had a lot of periods of frustration and challenging times throughout his career. Did you ever have any of those?


    Nancy: Uh, you know, I will be … I will be honest with you and say that I have been very blessed, in the  organizations that I have worked for, and I think largely because their business has been the rehabilitation of individuals that are visually impaired, and in the case of, you know, the organization I work for now, the education of students that are visually impaired. So honestly, as an organization and them understanding what my needs are, I have not had this same level of attitudinal difficulties. I think mine have been more technological in nature. And those are sometimes things we can fix, and sometimes there’s things that we can’t. One thing that Billy eluded to is uh, that I went back to get a master’s degree. After spending eighteen months with the Commission for the Blind in South Carolina, I was recruited to come work for the school for the blind, kind of where it all started. And what was actually really funny is, I didn’t realize I was being recruited. I was at an NFB convention here in South Carolina, and was, I was showing somebody a piece of equipment, and explaining it to them, and had their hands all over it, and was walking them through what the buttons did, and answering questions, and I had no idea that my future boss was standing right behind this person listening to everything that I was saying, and how I was explaining things. And he comes over and he goes, “Tell me what you do again?” And I was telling him what my job was, and that kind of thing, and he’s like, “Okay,” and he goes, “We might need to have a conversation.” And I’m like, “Okay.” I didn’t realize that I had been recruited. Until a buddy of mine, that I worked with, leaned over to me and goes, “Hey, um, I think you were just recruited for a job.” And I Was … I was …

    Totally surprised. “Really? I was just explaining things.” And that’s me. I just like sharing information, and, um, helping people to understand things. I think that’s why I’m a teacher now. Um, because it’s just what I do. But yeah. I did that, and, for the next four years, and then, last year of student teaching, I have been working on my masters, and working full time, and as of about three weeks ago, I signed my paperwork, and my teacher certificate has come through, and I am now officially a teacher of the visually impaired.


    Chris: That’s amazing, and that’s a big change for you, but it’s not the only big change for you uh, you both, is it?


    Nancy: No. It’s certainly not.


    Chris: So talk more about some of those other changes.


    Nancy: Well, where we are now, as compared to where we were in January of last year is vastly different. Um, January of last year, I was in the middle of student teaching, and Billy had just been let go from a temporary contract job that we had, and we were really uncertain about what our future was gonna look like. You know, obviously we go into March, and the pandemic hits into full swing, and I’m at home now, and doing my job virtually, which, actually, I made it work. Teaching kids technology skills, as long as they have the equipment in front of them, and you have the equipment in front of you, actually seemed to work pretty well for me. Somewhere toward, I think it was March or April, Billy was sent an E-mail by the Commission for the Blind, and they asked him to consider applying for a position. And he applied, and he got a job working for Clemson University in their IT department, and I’ll let him go into more details about that. But, what that meant for us, is that, we were living in Columbia South Carolina at the time. And Clemson is two hours, in the Northwestern part of the state, from Columbia. And so we were obviously going to have to move. And so, we did something totally crazy. We actually bought our own house. And that’s a huge thing. We’ve never, never owned our own home before. We’ve, we’ve rented either apartments or a house in the last couple of years, and now our names are on the paperwork, and, you know, it’s kind of amazing. You know, that we’re, we’re in a, a point of financial security now. You know, where he has a, a good stable job, and I have a good stable job, and in a year that was so awful for so many, we, we got so many blessings out of this last year.


    Chris: Billy, what was it like to start a new job, move, buy a new house, buy your first house, all in such a short period of time?


    Billy: Well, I have to say, it was shocking, and overwhelming, to say the least. In March of 2020, I applied for the job, but I honestly did not have high hopes. At this point, I had been rejected in so many jobs, I had really just about given up. I was really depressed about it, and I was almost to the point of resigning to the fact that, “I guess I’m just gonna have to draw social security the rest of my life.” And that’s not what I wanted. There was still a burning fire in me, albeit that it was burning very dim. So I applied for the job, and a few weeks later, I get an E-mail, it actually was in my junk folder, and it says “Your assessment is ready.” And it didn’t have any identifiable information on it. And it was because they used a third party to do, to generate the assessment. But I, I honestly deleted the E-mail. I was like, “Nope. I don’t know what this is, I’m not clicking on it,” that’s the IT security in me, and so, (Laugh.) I deleted this message. Another week or two went by, I get another one, and this time, it said, “You have twenty-four hours left in your assessment.” And Nancy happened to be sitting in my office. I said “You know what? I don’t know what this is, but the curiosity’s killing the cat.” And so, I clicked it, and the web page loaded, and it identified it as an exam from Clemson University. I’m like, “Wow!” You know? But again, didn’t really set my hopes very high. And I took the exam. Didn’t hear anything for a while. And I guess another week or two went by, and I get a phone call from somebody in Human Resources that says “Hey, we’d like to schedule an interview with you.” And at that point, I’m, I’m like “Okay. That’s, that’s a good sign. I must have passed the test.” I didn’t really, I felt good about the test when I took it, but I don’t know. My confidence was shot at that point. So it dawned on me, I said “Well you know, I kind of knew somebody that kind of works in the IT department at Clemson. Let me give my contact a call.” And I told him who I would be interviewing with, and he says “Well, I’m actually sitting right across from that guy,” and he says, “You know what, you were the second highest score on that exam. And they really like you. Just go nail it in the interview.” I, I did a panel interview with them. I later found out that immediately they liked my personality. So a week after the interview, they offered me the position, and they offered me the position at the highest pay that they could possibly extend to me. Which was even more crazy. And then, to top it off, after I accepted, the manager calls me and he says “I want to tell you that the pay that you’re getting,” and at this point, when he said that, I’m thinking, “Oh boy, they’re gonna change it. In the negative.” He says, “There’s built-in overtime. And so your salary’s actually gonna be twelve or so grand higher than what you are. And what you accepted.” And at this point, I’m just, okay, I’m shocked a little bit, and so, then the, the onboarding process begins. And what is so amazing about the story for me is how easy, and accessible, Clemson University made this process. They went above and beyond what our other state agencies that serve blind people even do. They just bent over backwards to make sure that all the training and onboarding paperwork, everything was accessible. And if it wasn’t, they helped me get through that process. Now that we’ve approached me being there, this coming week makes eight months, and they have just done everything they can to make sure that I am comfortable, that I am happy, the thing that I take away from this experience and would share to other blind people that are struggling with employment, if you want it bad enough, then whatever you will do, you will find a way not to completely give up. Even in your darkest, worst moment. And having Nancy in my life as a support system to lean on, I think really helped make that possible. We jokingly have a picture of two rocks, a smaller rock leaning against a bigger rock, but they’re both leaning towards each other holding each other up. And I think that is how our story really fits. It really helps to have that support system, but it also helps to know that whatever your destiny is, you know, it will be revealed to you in the right time. And one of the things that you’ll know, one of the things I figured out through this experience, when that particular thing is right for you, you won’t have to fight at all. You won’t have to struggle for it. You won’t have to … if you’re having to fight so hard to be employed somewhere, or if you’re fighting so hard to be accepted somewhere, maybe that isn’t the place you really want to be. It is so nice to be somewhere where people want you to be there and that you don’t have to fight to be there.


    Chris: That is such good advice. Uh, thank you for sharing that. Nancy, how did the two of you decide to buy a home?

    Nancy: I guess it was just sort of, like, “Well, we’re tired of living in apartments.” (Laugh.) And our, our rent, you know, was insane, and it was going to be even more insane, and everybody I know kept saying, “You know, if you guys could buy a house, your mortgage would be cheaper than your rent, and you would own it.” When Billy got his job, they were gracious enough to let him work remotely for a while. Because, frankly, the whole world was working remotely, you know, at that point. This is over the summer. And, while he was doing so, we were looking for houses from, kind of from afar. A friend of mine, uh, from, when I used to work at the Commission for the Blind, she and her family, they moved to Virginia, and so, um, we, we didn’t see them very much anymore, but we talk on the phone a lot. And they happened to mention, “Oh, hey, yeah. I have a, you know, a sister-in-law who’s a real estate agent, and she’s really a really awesome person, and she goes and, you know, crawls in the crawlspace, and crawls in the attic, and she’ll tell you if something, if she thinks something’s not good for you.” And we need people like that. You know, if we’re gonna, you know, be two blind people buying a house. You know, we, if it looks bad, you know, we need somebody to tell us. You know, ’cause um, I can’t always tell. You know, I don’t have enough vision to do that anymore. So we really needed a real estate agent who was honest. And she was great. And we, we got lucky. We, I mean we looked at, I think three or four houses that day, this was the first day we went looking. And the very last house we looked at was one that I think my sister had found on Zillow or something, and it had only been on the market for twenty-four hours, and it was the last house that we looked at, and it’s the one that we’re currently living in. Now as far as the house buying process, and the accessibility of that, that was kind of hit or miss. I found, personally, accessing some of those things on an iPad as opposed to doing it on my computer seemed to work a little better. There were times when I had to get sighted assistance from my family just to kind of make sure that I was reading things correctly ’cause they weren’t always accessible with Jaws or Voiceover. I’m talking about all the paperwork you have to sign. And, you know, and then when it came to doing stuff with the attorney, you know, I E-mailed them and said, “Hey. The online portal that you’ve sent stuff to me in makes it inaccessible. But it’s clearly a PDF of some sort. Can you send me the originating document?” And they did. And so, they were really great. About, you know, making sure we had all the paperwork, and we knew what was going on, we got paperwork from the county and stuff, and, that stuff’s not particularly accessible. So I try to, I try to scan it first, and if I don’t have any luck, then I, you know, facetime.


    Chris: Billy, did either of you have any misgivings, or, or was, maybe just picking another apartment an option that you considered?


    Billy: You know, I looked at my salary, and I had moved around a lot, and I honestly was just so tired of the moving process in general, but financially, you know, we both really sat down and looked at this, and go, “You know, we’re in our late thirties, …”


    Nancy: Hey! I’m not.


    (They laugh.)


    Billy: Well, you’re mid-thirties, lucky you But …


    (Nancy laughs.)


    Billy: But, you know, we really just decided that, you know, paying thirteen, fourteen, sometimes sixteen hundred dollars a month for something you don’t own, and with my amateur radio hobbies, and our dogs, our dogs are a very big part of our life. And we wanted a fenced in yard so that they could roam free, and, you know, we eventually want kids. And so we wanted something that was gonna fit our needs, and we rented our first house prior to buying this house. And when we started renting the house, it was 1195 a month. And, you know, we stayed there for two years, and if we’d have stayed another third year, it was gonna go up to almost 1400 a month. And it was a small house, that was built in the eighties, about eleven hundred square feet, three bedroom, two bath, not much to it. It essentially was a slab home. So, you know, it really seemed, you know, the housing market, this was at the time a good time to buy. And so now we’re actually paying, you know, right at about a thousand a month, by the time the insurance and things that are built into the mortgage payment, we’re paying less. And that’s locked in for the next thirty years. And we don’t have to worry about that magically going up. Our house that we bought, it was built in 2006, so it’s not all that old. It’s been a very well taken care of house. It feels new to us, it still, you know, still has a new look to it. They’re actually still building houses in our neighborhood, so it’s, it’s a quiet neighborhood, where, we’re really happy with that, we’re happy with our neighbors and that sort of thing, but from that financial component, it’s a more energy efficient house, so our power bill, mind you, with all the IT equipment I have running, was approaching 450, 500 dollars a month, especially in the summer time. Our power bill is half that now. It’s, it’s, it’s staying below 250. You know, we do have gas, but that’s actually pretty low for heating the, the house, and the hot water heater. So, we’re saving money. Yes, we’re responsible for maintenance, but we now have control over the quality of the maintenance that we get. And so I would implore any blind or visually impaired folks to take the time, while it seems time consuming, take the time to figure out what the process is like. And, if you’re worried about taxes, you know, see if your state has homestead exemption. That’s something that we did, and that helps a lot with the tax burden. You know, I’m here to tell you, as a blind person, if you want a house, and you want that sense of ownership and independence, it’s available to you if you become disciplined in your finances.


    Nancy: You know, I think, kind of going along with what Billy said, I mean yeah. It was, it was difficult, and a little scary, and, let’s be honest, Billy was working, and it was over the summer, and so I was the one largely handling the paperwork. It was terrifying. It’s, it’s definitely been a growing experience. If I had to say anything to anybody, whether it be about buying a house, or getting a job, or going to college, or getting a guide dog, or letting your blind kid go out in the world on their own to walk down the street to the playground, it’s gonna serve you well, throughout the rest of your life with everything you do. You know, I use the analogy of stepping off the curb and crossing a street. Yeah, I could get flattened by a car, but if I don’t step off the curb, I’m never gonna go to the next block and see what’s there. And, you know, that’s kind of how life is like.


    Billy: Well, I also would add, I think, um, you need to learn how to fail.


    Nancy: Yup.


    Billy: So that you can also learn how to succeed.


    Nancy: Well, and also, the learning to pick yourself back up when you fail. Like, that’s hard. And it’s scary. And, but, you know, it’s, it’s that adage of getting back up and doing it again. Because if you don’t pick yourself up, nobody else is going to.


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    Chris: So, Billy, what was it like when you got the keys for the first time and opened the front door?


    Billy: It was really nice. Um, for those who know me, and for those who don’t, I have a collection of server racks, and I wanted my garage to be a data center, and, thus I’ve turned it into such. Um, so much so that, I’ve had special air conditioning put in, …


    (Nancy chuckles.)


    Billy: For the IT equipment, um, I’ve had special electrical put in to sustain the power for the servers, and they’re on their own breakers, and extra panels, and things of that nature. So it was really exciting to, to now say, “This is ours. We own this, and we can do what we want with it. We can make it fit our needs.”


    Chris: Were there any negative reactions from people when you said, “This is what we’re gonna do?”


    Nancy: It wasn’t so much negative as, “Are you sure? Are you sure you’re ready to take on this type of responsibility? Are you sure you’re ready for the, you know, there’s not gonna be a maintenance number you can call when X Y and Z happens, and, you know, you’re not gonna have, you know, the security and the safeguards you had when you were renting,” and so, you know. We kind of used the house that we were renting sort of like a testing lab. Like a place to practice. It was a really cool learning experience. So I’ll be honest with you. By the time it came to buying a house, I, I felt ready.”


    Chris: So, I’m gonna throw this out to the two of you, and uh, you can fight over the answer if you want.

    (Nancy chuckles.)


    Chris: What’s next for you as a couple?


    Nancy: Hmm.


    Billy: Oo. Boy. Um, wow. I, you know, I think, really, after we find ourselves, me being in this job for a year, which will be in June, I think that at this juncture, I think we’re just gonna take a vacation a little bit.


    Nancy: (With a chuckle:) Yeah. I could use one.


    Billy: And just, um, because while all these great things have happened, and we’re very blessed and very thankful for those things to happen, it’s been fast paced. Been a lot of, of catching up to do, I intend on putting me a um, a ham radio tower in my back yard at some point soon. I want to add some insolation to the garage for the IT equipment, so I’m wanting to pay a contractor to do that, but really, we didn’t get to do our fifth wedding anniversary as I would like to have seen it done because we were actually in the middle of all this process. I mean our world had just been, I don’t want to say turned up-side-down, but it had definitely taken a hard right turn. Now that we’ve kind of settled into the, “This is actually reality, we’re here to stay, things have leveled off,” I think, this will be her first summer that she’s had in several years of not having to take classes, not having to do anything, and because of the work schedule I have, you know, I get a lot of time off. And so I think I’m gonna, um, indulge in, in some sort of a vacation type trip, just where she and I can go, and kind of deflate and just enjoy ourselves, and not have to be thinking about everything that has happened, albeit good. We can just kind of say we did it, and kind of celebrate in it, and, and really enjoy it. So it’s really interesting what the next challenges will bring. Um, I’m hoping at some point to, you know, my job, I never did actually share what my job is with Clempson, but I um, am a senior network technician for a network operations center. So I work at our data center. And they’ve already indicated an interest in potentially having me uh, move into the server systems at Min Space, and so I’m hoping in the next year or two that I will be promoted into that space where my specialty is, you know, and, and see what other challenges uh, you know, are placed in front of us, and opportunities, uh, … there, there could always be an opportunity that we may sell this house. (Half laugh.) I hope not, but, you know, that we may find something that is bigger and better. You know, life is always changing. And the only thing that stays the same is everything keeps changing.


    Nancy: Yeah. I’m not gonna lie. (Laugh.) I’m looking forward to June. I think I’m, I think I work until either the eleventh or the sixteenth. I can’t remember. cause one of my districts didn’t start until sometime in September. And so, um, I’m really, really looking forward to the end of the school year. With working with everybody virtually, or, some kids I am able to go travel and see, that’s changed the way my work functions, and how I do what I do, and so it’s just, it’s a lot of hard work. And, with my new added responsibilities of being a teacher of the visually impaired, you know, it’s just different. And I, I think, you know, I worked all summer, on my Masters thesis, and, (Laugh.) I presented my paper in the morning, and the movers showed up in the afternoon. So, it was kind of nuts. And it has really been nonstop since probably January of 2016 when I first started my Master’s degree. And I’ve been working full time. And so, um, I am looking forward to some space to just kind of wind down, um, just to kind of decompress a little bit, but I, personally, it’s kind of funny that Billy’s thoughts are about, you know, the house and making improvements to it. My personal thought, is um, to figure out whether I can physically have children or not. I, I haven’t been able to do that, uh, and really dedicate as much time to that as I would have liked to for time reasons, financial reasons, you know, over the last several years. And, let’s be honest. I’m gonna be thirty-five. You know, this year. And, you know, my mom’s, my mom’s words of, “You know, your eggs are as old as you are” definitely ring in my brain and kind of make me sad. And so I kind of want to find out, can I do this naturally or not? Do we need to consider, you know, IVF which, is really expensive, or do we want to go down the road of providing a home for a child that needs one? And, I’ll be honest with you, I’m kind of leaning more towards the latter, if I had to choose between IVF and adopting a child, but that brings in a whole nother level of stuff that we would have to figure out and learn and, the composition of our house. You know, they’d have to have their own space, and, you know, all of these other things. And could we do that here? You know, would we need to be in a different space to support bringing a child, you know, or adopting a child? So there’s lots of things to consider, and, you know, they do float around in the back of my mind, and I do occasionally ponder upon them from time to time, but it’s one of those things that I’m kind of like, “I can’t think too deeply about, I do wonder about, but let me get through this period, and then we’ll see where we are.” I think what’s cool about where we are in our period in life is, the sky’s the limit really at this point. I, I really have no … you know, everybody talks about, “What’s your five-year plan?” (Chuckle.) I don’t know. (Laugh.) I have no idea. You know, right now, it’s been surviving the school year. (Laugh.) And, you know, ’cause who knows what next school year will be like?


    Chris: Nancy, I want to close with this. You can throw it over to Billy when you’re done with your answer. But what advice would you have to give somebody that is, I guess younger than you, and looking at their life in the future and maybe not sure what it’s gonna be like?


    Nancy: Don’t be afraid to try things. People used to say, “Oh, well, she’s just finding herself.” You know, when I was off at a monastery for a year. And they look back, and, and I’ve gotten questions of, “You’re a TVI, and you went to college for theater? And you started out in broadcasting? %How does that make sense?” And I’m like, “But you know what? I didn’t know where my interests lay. And I didn’t know, where, you know, where I was gonna go.” You know, and the thing about those two internships that I did is that I thought I was going into the ministry. That’s what I always thought I was there to do. But you know what kept happening? All these blind people kept appearing. You know, there was, there was two in Cambridge. I was invited to go to the NFB meeting in Cambridge. In Louisville, I worked down the street from APH. And I met, you know, Larry Scootkind, and, and I met various people. And there was a lady in our church that, all she wanted to do was be able to participate in the church service, and so, I learned how, for myself, to make the print bigger, and, so that I could send her out a digital copy of her bulletin that she could read on her iPad. And so what kept happening to me is, whether I … Because I wasn’t aware of it at the time. But my skill set of things that I was doing for myself, making the world better for myself, were also inherently making the world better for other people in a small way. And I think, sometimes, stepping back, and looking at things around you that you’re already doing, you may find the path that you’re meant to wander down and you didn’t even know it. And start there. And, and you know what? I would also say, don’t think about you know, “I need to go work with a specific company,” or “I need to go do a specific type of thing.” Because you don’t. I really feel like the limitations that we place upon ourselves are just as detrimental, if not more so, than the limitations that society places upon us as blind people. And I would say, “Just get out of your own way.”


    Billy: So, to, to add to that, I think the best advice I could give anybody is, “grow where you’re planted, and once you outgrow that space, venture out, but at the same time, don’t think so far ahead about the future.


    Nancy: Mhm.


    Billy: Because that will limit you from seeing what is in front of you today.


    Nancy: Yup.


    Billy: Enjoy every day. Make the most of those, of each day. Do the best you can. Give it your all in whatever it is that you’re doing. Somebody will come along and recognize what you have to offer, and what you can contribute.


    Chris: Nancy and Billy, I have really enjoyed getting to know you, and I want to thank you for telling us all about your life, and your successes and failures, and I hope that, uh, we can have you back  on another time, you know, maybe after you have kids, and find out about what that’s like.


    (Nancy chuckles.)


    Chris: Thanks for being here. I really appreciate it.


    Nancy: Thanks for having us. It was fun.


    Billy: It was truly a pleasure.


    Chris: I hope you have enjoyed this week’s interview and will tune in again next time, but first, sometimes, persistence really does pay off. A woman I know saw an unrecognizable charge from a state government agency on her PayPal account recently. Needless to say, this scared her a little bit. She contacted PayPal to alert them of the charge, and that there might be possible fraud, and they told her that they didn’t see any sign of fraud, and she was going to have to pay the charge anyway. She contacted me, and I gave her this advice. “Write a letter to PayPal, and let them know that you believe that you have been fraudulently charged. Keep records of all of the conversations you’ve had with anyone involved in the fraud so that you can provide that along with the letter. Finally, be patient, and after sending the letter, things will probably turn out in your favor.” She did, and things did turn out in her favor. The charge was eventually removed, and now everything’s fine. Being persistent was something that really paid off in her case.


    Chris: That concludes this episode of the Penny Forward podcast. Penny Forward is a community of people who are blind, their families, and friends, who share an interest in financial independence. Join us, and we will work together to avoid financial obstacles and target our goals. To learn more, visit


    Until next time, I’m Chris Peterson. Thanks for listening.



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