Penny Forward Podcast: Love on a Budget MOe: This is the Penny Forward podcast, a podcast about blind people building bright futures one penny at a time. I am MOe Carpenter, ... Chris: I'm Chris Peterson, ... Liz: I'm Liz Bottner, ... Moe: And today, we have with us Janeen Lea. We are going to have a conversation about dates, and relationships, and loving our budget by loving our relationships. And thank you, Everybody, for being here. Like I said, this is going to be kind of a more open conversation than our normal style of podcast, but I did want to just kind of start off. I am a married person with four children. Uh, Chris, do you want to go ahead and tell us kind of your situation? Chris: Yeah. I'm married also, I also have two children. I have been married twice, and, though I don't believe that I have had like a huge number of, um, partners, I guess is what you might want to call them, um, I feel like I have a pretty good, wide range of, of experience with dating. MOe: Thanks, Chris. How about Janeen? Janeen: So, I've been dating someone for nine years, and I also have been in long distance relationships. I've been married and divorced. I'm pretty happy in my current situation, (Chuckle.) And I used to go on lots of dates. MOe: Thanks, Janeen, and Liz. Liz: I am not married but do have a little bit of dating experience. MOe: Thanks, Liz. Um, and like I said, we're just kind of looking to throw some ideas out there on how to keep your dates happy, uh, your relationships happy, and so we will go through some dating ideas. We're also going to cover some dating safety because that is very important in our community. Most of that is going to more refer back to those that are going on first dates or blind dates, and then we will cover some of our actual favorite experiences that we have had dating. So, does anyone want to start off with some of, maybe your top three ideas for date ideas? Janeen, why don't you go ahead? Janeen: Awesome. So, currently, these are some inexpensive date ideas. I have other ideas for expensive dates, but currently, my favorite thing to do is Geo cashing. So, Geo cashing is an app that you and your partner can download, you can share a name or you can have your own, and it's like a treasure hunt throughout the world. So, you go and you get these coordinates, and you find a container, and it has little treasures inside. Like a quarter, a, a figure, a pen, different things. And um, you take something out, and you put something in, and you sign the logbook. And it's great for exercise, and it's a really great, inexpensive thing. 'cause you could take something within your house, and just, you know, recycle it. So that's one idea. Another idea is my favorite thing is commonly known as the Question Bowl. And when I was sighted, I would actually make questions and put them in a bowl, but now that I'm not sighted, I make a list, my partner makes a list, and randomly, we pick a number on the list, and we ask each other that question. That way you get to know each other, and you can joke about it, and do different things, and we take turns answering it, and then going into a little more detail. It could be anything from, "What's your favorite color," to, "What are you scared of?" Like different things like that. But that's fun. And then another idea is, you know, traveling Broadway plays are very expensive. But if you look for a community theater, it's less expensive, and get audio description. So, those range from like fifteen to twenty dollars a person. I guess that would maybe be more expensive. So, I guess that's my top three, and then there's the picnic. So, I like picnicking. So, you each can bring food, and make it at home, and it would save the cost of going out, and then you're in a park, or beach, or a mountain, or wherever you want to be. And enjoying a meal and some time. So, I guess those are my top ideas. Right now. MOe: Thanks, Janeen. Uh, Liz. Do you have some top ideas for us for just fun things you'd like to do on a date? Liz: Sure. I think, first and foremost, take advantage of what you may have around your specific geographic area, in terms of maybe museums, or parks, or different types of things like that. Uh, theater, as Janeen said, and ... because I'm located in Washington D.C. there are so many things around my particular area that are educational, and free. Right? So, finding a common interest, among yourself and your partner, and, going to, maybe the art gallery, or the Smithsonian Museum, pick one, 'cause there are several. Um, (Chuckle.) But just, and just exploring that together. And, and sharing in that experience, I think can be very, very valuable for just education, but also just to have the shared experience of doing something together that is not going to break the bank. MOe: Thanks, Liz. Chris, do you got any more for us? Chris: Yeah. I actually have some thoughts for continuing dates as a married person, and then also some ideas for first dates. So, I'll throw them out in, in those sets. First for continuing dates. Maintaining a relationship. And I think this is really, really important, and something that particularly when we're married and we have kids, and other things going on, that we maybe don't prioritize as much as we should. So, getting away from the kids, in any way possible, is really good. Sometimes those things might be a shared hobby or pursuit. Kelly and I play darts together on a blind dart league, and while Kelly is not blind, one of the things that I love about it is that all people are welcome in the blind dart league. And everybody is asked to wear a blindfold, so Kelly is, uh, playing on an equal playing field with, with the rest of us. And we've made a number of good friends that way. We also used beep baseball as kind of a way for us to, uh, to go on dates together. We have used that for sort of the more expensive dates. We've gone to tournaments together, and hung out with the team, and then hung out, you know, by ourselves, sometimes the by ourselves things are, we go to Costco, and we pick up supplies for the team. And we use that as a way to spend time together. Penny Forward has also been a great way for us to work together, while, uh, spending time together. Even something as simple as going to Walmart to pick up items for Penny Forward. Which was something that we actually had to do last week while we were in Los Vegas. Can turn into a very memorable experience, and something that we can kind of bond over and cement our relationship. Um, we had a funny story, actually; (chuckle.) At Walmart, where, uh, uh, we went in, I had to buy a new Square reader. Because I accidentally ran my Square Reader through the laundry. And we were going to be selling Penny Forward merch at, uh, the Sage Brush RSVA conference last week. And so we went into Walmart, we bought a Square reader, and you have to go to the electronics counter, and, uh, they unlock it from a cabinet, and give it to you, and then they check you out right there. So, all we needed was the Square reader, right? So, the guy pulls it out of the cabinet, he starts to check it out, and he looks over at me and he says, "Do you want that too." And Kelly and I both sort of looked at him confusedly, like we didn't know what was going on. And, uh, he looked at my cane. And, finally, he starts laughing and he says, "Oh I'm sorry, I thought that was a broom." (They laugh.) Chris: So, uh, then we all had a good laugh. I think he was a little embarrassed about it, but uh, you know, that was kind of a joke for, for the rest of the week then, was uh, you know, "Did you forget your broom? Do you have your broom? Where s my broom?" You know, all this stuff. So, something that simple is, uh, something that would qualify as a date for us, being an old married couple. First dates. I've had some really good first dates and some really bad first dates. Start out with one of the really bad ones. I went to a movie with a girl, and neither of us particularly liked the movie, and we both had disabilities, so we were both kind of stuck with para transit schedules, and, and uh, that kind of thing, and so we, we got together for, like, sodas before the movie, and then we went into the movie, and then when the movie was done, our rides were coming. And it turned out to be kind of a poor first date because, you know, we didn't talk to each other. We ended up just sitting watching the movie. But we didn't give ourselves any time on the back end to talk about what we thought of the movie or anything, and on the front end, we, it was hard to get the conversation started. So, my advice there is maybe pick some activities that cause you to talk to each other. It can help to break the ice a little bit, and, uh, get the conversation flowing more freely. Some really good first dates have been, in my case, sort of not dates at all. I met my first wife, who was my girlfriend and fianc all through college and stuff, um, we met working at a summer camp together. And so, our first dates were not even really dates, they were, "Hey, I need to figure out where this place is. Could you walk me there?" And she would walk me there, and, you know, if it were a five- or ten-minute walk or something, 'cause camps tend to be fairly big areas, then we would talk to each other for those five or ten minutes. And, as the week went on, we got to, you know, sort of realizing that we liked each other a lot. We always had good conversations, and then we would find excuses. You know, she would come to me and say "Hey, do you need me to walk you to this place," or whatever, and, and then I would say "yes," even though I already knew how to get there. You know, just as an excuse to spend more time together. Our first official date was a dinner theater. And the dinner theater was kind of cool because they did like, the dinner before the show, and then they do an intermission, and then they do dessert, and then they do the rest of the show. And so, it gave us a chance to kind of catch-up during dinner, we uh, you know, we knew each other already, so we kind of knew how to talk to each other. But then we got a chance to take a brake and then watch the show, and then talk about what we liked about the show, and uh, how dessert was, and stuff, and, and then watch the rest of the show, and then talk a little bit at the end before we had to go. So, that was an example of I think what I was trying to talk about that didn't work well with that, that bad first date. We didn't give ourselves the opportunity to get to know each other really. Um, you can't do that sitting in a movie side by side, unless you are gonna talk over the movie, which, you know, I don't do, 'cause I think that's rude. So, ... MOe: Well, and part of going to, um, movies is that we have the audio description headsets, so that makes it even more awkward when you're trying to do a date, or, especially a first date, with the audio headset. Because that's taking you out of the moment since most of them do cover both ears. And it can be a little awkward to take one off. I really like live performances, because they tend to have the one ear open, and the one ear with the audio description. Chris: Yeah. MOe: When it is available. Chris: Yeah. MOe: So, that's really nice when it is available. Uh, I also really like the physical fitness, I put it as a category. What me and my husband do is we do tandem bicycling, and so that is one of my favorite things to do when the weather gets warmer. Actually, it might be warm enough today that we could go out for a little cycle, but we'll see. (Chuckle.) And another item that, I won't say that we do perfectly together, is, we like to do cooking as a date experience, so, I'm not the biggest cook in the world, and my husband is, um, he worked for like seventeen years in a kitchen, so he's a lot more cooking savvy and such, and he likes to experiment and play around with things. So, he'll do a lot of the actual cooking stuff, but I'll do a lot of prep, and help with just, you know, entertainment while we're doing cooking, and a lot of times, once we're done with the actual cooking and eating a meal together, we'll play a game, and that is a way that we do some inexpensive dating. And one last thing, for my third thing, is that we like to take car rides and listen to podcasts together. We listen to "The Critical Roll podcast," we are quite far behind in it, but that is a D and D game that is played by some voice actors. So, that is another idea that we have. Janeen, did you have anything that came to mind that we missed for ideas? Janeen: I do. I have a lot. I have a lot. So, I was sighted for most of my life, so I had a lot of sighted dates. And now, it's been five years and I've been blind, and I've had to look at dating a lot differently. Especially with the new long-distance relationship. So, let's see. The things I've wanted to say, for long distance relationships, I have a really good first date idea, but for long distance relationships that are virtual before you meet each other, I would suggest watching a movie on Zoom, or some other form that you can put the phone to the TV, or however you want to do it. If you have a streaming service, you can pick a series to watch together, and binge watch the series. I quite enjoyed that. My first series I watched with that boyfriend was "In the Dark," and it was about a blind girl. So, I really loved that. It was really good bonding time, and it was very inexpensive, 'cause we just did it on the phone, and we got to know each other, and then we could pause it, and talk about the episodes, and, just, yeah. Um, talking about music, or reviewing an album, that's one way to do long distance dating on the phone. Before you do things in person. I thought of those, and then also, I was thinking about good first dates in person. For me, I grew up in California. So, I also, in San Francisco, I also had a lot of culture, and a lot of things were free, but, of course, there were some expensive things as well. But I really love theme parks, and water parks. So, it might not be the most, inexpensive, but I tend to have season passes, because in my life, that's what I like to do, and if it's with multiple dates, like if I'm not in a committed relationship, (Chuckle.) Then you can go to a theme park, or a water park, and I find that when you're in line, it either goes good, or really bad. Because you can talk about a lot of things when you're in the waiting lines to go on a ride. Or when you're in the water park when you're walking. Or walking up and down the stairs. And then you have that shared experience of the fun, and then, you're still talking, and walking, and I find that's a good, concentrated date. Maybe, yeah. I like it for first date, but second date is, is good. I would say a very, very bad first date for anyone, except MOe, um, is if you go to a haunted house. I, I would not recommend going to a haunted house, (Chuckle.) For your first date. If you are scared, ... MOe: I don't know if I'd say first date material, but it is a fun date. (Janeen laughs.) Janeen: Yeah. And my, my boyfriend and I love to cook. Like we make pizza, we make bread, we make cookies, and there's also volunteering. I don't know if that would be necessarily a first date, but volunteering. You can volunteer at an animal shelter and pet bunnies, dogs, they do need people for that. You can volunteer at a food pantry, doing different things, yeah. That's a really good bonding experience, and you're giving back, and it's, and it's free to volunteer. Or maybe you join a group that has a beach cleanup, and, but again. I've had mostly sighted partners, and I've had a blind partner. And things are very different with a blind partner. Especially when we both had the audio descriptive headsets. But, yeah, those are a couple of my ideas, of course there's so many more, but yeah. MOe: Liz, do you have any other items that came to mind? Maybe an expensive date idea that you find fun? Liz: This would not necessarily be a first date experience, it might be your last if this potentially was a first date experience, but something like sky diving, or bungee jumping, if that's something that you and your ... your significant other decided ... (Chris laughs.) MOe: Oh, I think that sounds fabulous. (Chuckle.) Janeen: That sounds fun. Let's do it. Liz: Would be agreeable to both of you, that might be an interesting exercise. Uh, so that would, that would fit that category. MOe: Thanks, Liz. How about you, Chris? Do you have any ideas for maybe not as cheap of an idea for a date? Chris: Yeah. I really like cruises. And I've only been on one cruise, but one of the things that I really like about cruises is that everything is in a pretty compact, usually pretty easy to navigate, area onboard the ship. It's a bit like staying at a hotel, but with more entertainment options than you would find at a hotel. And you get the opportunity to leave the ship in different ports, and experience different things. A cruise seems like it would be a, a pretty expensive idea, right? You know, you're talking about, say, three thousand dollars or something for a cabin on a cruise ship. But there are things that people do sometimes to make that cruise experience more affordable. One is to take shorter cruises. Instead of like a seven-day seven night cruise, there are shorter cruises that maybe last for two nights and three days, and they can be a lot cheaper. You can also choose to purchase an inside cabin. So, the cabins that are on the outside of the ship, that have port holes that look outside, or even balconies, tend to be more expensive. There are cabins that are inside on the ship, that don't have any windows, or any sort of views outside, but if you don't want to spend a bunch of time in your cabin, you can always go and walk around the, the deck of the ship, and get your outside views that way. Most of the restaurants and bars and other eating areas onboard ship have windows. Uh, and then, usually, there's access to things like pools, and, and uh, other outdoor activities that allow you to be outside, so uh, you know, if you consider your cabin to be mostly a place that you want to sleep, and you're gonna spend most of your time away from it, buying a cheaper cabin may make sense. The other thing to remember about cruises is that the, all (the eating and the drinking is included, except for alcohol, and you can buy alcohol drink packages that will include the alcohol for you. They're not necessarily a bad deal, if you prefer to drink alcohol, but, uh, um, having all of your meals included can make it real easy to budget for your vacation, because you kind of know kind of, as a flat rate what it's gonna cost rather than having to worry about it day by day by day. Another thing that I really like about traveling outside of the country, and a lot of cruises are outside of the country, is that prices are often cheaper outside of the United States. And we're talking way cheaper. If you go to, say, a lot of Caribbean islands, you might be able to buy really expensive items for, say, half of the price of what they would cost here in the United States. And, uh, so, even dining off the ship, or buying souvenirs off the ship, can be a lot less expensive if you travel out of the country. All-inclusive resorts are kind of a similar deal. You know, you don't have the ability to travel from place to place to place so much; but you do have kind of that flat rate, uh, where you know what your vacation is going to cost starting out instead of having to be kind of worried about whether I have enough money to do this, and this, and this, and this throughout the uh, the vacation. But they are more expensive. MOe: Those are some awesome ideas, Chris. And I want to do, my expensive date idea is a friendship date versus a romantic date, I guess, and I really like experiences, so one of my favorite things is, I have done an animal encounter, so for me it was a dolphin encounter, and I did that with one of my best friends. And that was a really fun date, 'cause with those animal experiences, often you actually get to touch the animals, and those kinds of things, versus just having the "Oh look, we're at a zoo. There's animals running around." So, those nice hands-on tours, and those kinds of things are some other ideas for you. Janeen, do you have one more idea for us before we shift our gears into safety? Janeen: Yes. Uh, one more. Gosh, there's so many. Um, you can go wine tasting. So, you can, if you're old enough, and if you like alcohol, you, or a food tour. So, there are some services that you pay one price, and they will drive you from vineyard to vineyard to vineyard, or there's; like if you Ubered into that, but there are food tours too. Where they're walking food tours in every area that you could go walking, and eat foods from, all kinds. So, you just go, go, go. Food tours are really fun. I, I really like friendship dates too. So, those are important. I think experiences are more. And, and I want to add one more really, I know this is like, everyone thinks it's so romantic, but a, a really bad date idea, maybe other people like it, but is hot air ballooning. It's very expensive, and it's very loud. 'cause they have to keep stoking the fire to keep the balloon going, and it's awkward to get in and out, and everyone thinks it's so great and so romantic, but I've found it's very noisy, and it's a little rocky. So, ... MOe: You know, Janeen, it's, it's funny that you mention that. Did you do that before you were blind or after you were blind? Janeen: Yes. Before I was blind. Yes. MOe: So, that actually came up in a top list of ideas for people with a visual impairment to do as a date, and I didn't think it sounded all that great. (Janeen laughs.) MOe: Um, I don't say that I wouldn't want to do it, but they're like, "Focus on the feeling of being in the air." It's like, "Well I can do other things to get that feeling. Janeen: Mhm. MOe: Like riding in an airplane. And "The sights, and the smell," or, maybe not the sights, but you know, "the air, and the smells, and all this stuff." And I was just like, "I don't think that that is gonna be as different as they think it will be." Chris: If you want a date where you are in the air, and you are actually experiencing being in the air, consider para sailing. Janeen: Para sailing is amazing. MOe: That sounds fun. Janeen: You go out on a boat, and you put a vest on, and you're clipped in, and then they put you up very high, and then you're in the air and it's very quiet up there. Um, I did it when I was sighted, I haven't done it now that I'm blind, but I would. I, I love it. I, I like heights. (Laugh.) Chris: Yeah. Janeen: Um, sky diving, I'm not sure if I would do that blind, I did it sighted, so, yeah. MOe: I want to do the indoor skydive where it's fans that lift you up, ... Janeen: Yeah. MOe: And there's less of the danger of, of falling. Janeen: There you go. So, yeah. Okay, cool. I love the para sailing. But that, again, is a little bit more pricey. If you have a friend that has a boat, or you can go camping, this is for a long-term relationship. Right? So, camping, or even if you're married and you live together, you could go camping in your back yard. Depending on the time of the year. Now I wouldn't recommend that in the snow, unless you're me, but (Laugh.) Other people, you could go camping. MOe: Depends. You might have the right kind of equipment. Chris: Winter camping really is a thing. Yeah. Janeen: You could, and you could do sports. Like swimming. I love swimming, and I have a pool. So um, I have dates with my boyfriend in the pool where we play games while we do that, we, we race each other, so it's exercise and, and playing. So, yeah. There's so many things you could do inexpensive. I like expensive dates too, but I'm not, like, for me, an expensive date, a common expensive date for me, is this upgraded concert ticket with a VIP thing to meet the artist. Because for me; I, I just want to have the experience and talk to them and tell them "Thank you for writing the thing," and I love concerts. Music is so great. So, instead of sitting in the back in the handicapped section, I will sit in the front to have a better experience. But those are my expensive dates. Chris: I was thinking sky diving's probably a good segway into date safety. MOe: Chris, why don't you start us off with one of your dating safety tips? Chris: Yeah. One of my dating safety tips is if you do go sky diving, go to a reputable sky diving company that knows what they're doing, and has a good safety record. But, in all seriousness, one of the things that is a pretty common recommendation for people going on first dates particularly, is to meet in a public place. And it's just a good recommendation all around, to be in a place where there's lots of people around that can kind of see what's going on, and, and will step in if there's something unsafe happening. For us, transportation is sometimes an issue, and so, the question might become, if your partner, say, is, is sighted, or is able to drive, do you let them pick you up?" It's gonna be an individual choice for everyone, and if you ve been talking to that person for six months or something, maybe you believe you trust them enough to have them pick you up. On the other hand, you could just have them meet you at a public place, which is the way Kelly and I met on our first date, and I just paid for, for a cab at the time. Uber and Lyft weren't quite yet a thing. And uh, then, I did, after the date, uh, let her drive me home. Because you know, we had gotten to know each other well enough that I felt I could trust her to do that. But, if you are going on a date with a person with a disability, and transportation is an issue for both of you, I can't think of a ton of reasons not to maybe set up a shared Uber or Lyft ride, particularly on the way home if that makes sense. Because maybe you live in completely opposite parts of the world. Even getting there, though, uh, one of you may choose to add another stop to your Uber or Lyft ride to pick the other person up, and, and uh, you kind of both have to decide whether you trust the, the driver, but uh, you know, maybe there's a little less of a safety concern if you're meeting each other that way. So, something to think about as far as keeping costs down is, is uh, how you might share the transportation, and when you might decide to do that in a way that makes you feel safe. MOe: And thanks, Chris, for bringing that up, because those were kind of the reasons, I wanted to go over these safety tips. Is because they can actually need to be something that we do budget for when we're thinking of dating. Because they can actually cost us maybe a little more than average, but like you said, transportation, you know, for us, it's something we can't do on our own, but for a lot of people in big cities, they don't have cars. So, they don't do their own transportation anyways. Uh, Janeen, do you have a, a safety tip for us? Janeen: So, a dating safety tip in my experience in the blind world, is you meet people on line, through a community, or maybe through Penny Forward, (Chuckle.) While you re talking, and you develop a relationship, and you get to know them, and, "Hey. When are we going to meet?" And most of the time, people live in other states, or across the country, so I would suggest the first time you meet that it's neutral. That you do it in a neutral location. Uh, the first time I met someone I was dating virtually, I got a resort, and there were two rooms. So, it was a two-bedroom, but they were separate units. So, he could have one side and I could have the other, so we each could have space, and we could be alone, and it was neutral. So, we didn't share the rooms, but we went out together. And we did talk about budgeting. So sometimes we took para transit, and sometimes we took Uber, and we talked about food, and we bought groceries, and cooked because it was a time share. So, for me, it wasn't very expensive 'cause I have time share points that I have to use. I know other people don't, but maybe you do. Maybe other people do. So, I would just suggest, if you meet someone, and it's going to be, you're putting the cost in, like flying to another state, and you're going to be there for a couple days, that you each have your own room, and you not stay with the person. Because you never know how it's gonna go. If, that's a big safety thing. If it's, if you're meeting in your city, tell your friends. Um, or, if you're going to their city, I've been lucky and I've had people in the cities of the people that I've met, and it's gone well for me. So, I've told my friends, and they know where I am, and they check on me, and all those things. So, have a back-up if there's something bad, if you think, but most, I haven't had a bad experience meeting a blind person, since I've been blind and dating. Chris: I want to add something to that, as well, if I can. The idea that a first date has to be a one-on-one thing, to me, is, is a little bit limiting. It can often be a really good thing to go on a first date with other people. Janeen: Yeah. MOe: Right. Chris: Those other people don't necessarily have to be your friends, but they could be your friends. Or they could be that person's friends. But getting to know how your perspective partner interacts with the rest of the world can really, you know, let you learn a lot about them. Janeen: Yes. Like also you can do like a pottery class. So, that's public and you're doing something together. Or a cooking class. So other people were there. And it's not just the two of you, a one-on-one thing. MOe: Right. And that's one thing I wrote down was, a double date for, especially a first date. That's how I did mine. Um, it was supposed to be a double date, it turned into a date for me and my now husband and a chauffeur, because their ... (Chris and Janeen laugh.) MOe: Other side canceled out on them. Um, but it was intended to be a double date when we started. Janeen: Even virtually. You can do a double date with your friends. Like, I can self-disclose that. MOe and I have had a double date. Like, she and her husband and myself and my partner, we played games on the phone. And we watched ... cartoons, and movies. So, there are ways to have double dates on the phone if everybody's in different locations, or if you're together and separate. MOe: Thanks, Janeen. Liz, do you got a safety tip for us? Liz: Yes. My safety tip is, respect where you are, and what your definition is of safety, and keeping yourself safe on a first date, and also, respect that of your partner. And those two definitions may look different, and what you think might be silly, and slightly ridiculous, the other person may truly feel is not ridiculous, and definitely something to be concerned about. So, it's, it's meeting in the middle, and finding that balance, uh, because I feel like if there isn't the level of respect there, about what each of you feels is needed to keep either, and/or both of you safe, in terms of meeting, then that, that first date, it might not end up happening, but even if it does, it may end up being your last date. And, so, and I say that with all, the respect, in the world. (Chuckle.) Uh, but just, respect goes a long way. And that's, that was the very first thing that came to mind as I was thinking about this question. MOe: Right. Thanks, Liz. Some other key notes, I know we're kind of running short on time here, so I want to run over these quick. Especially for us ladies, keep your drink with you, at all times, and I would even go as far as to say, ask for a lid for your drink. and that is just so nothing can accidentally get knocked into your drink, or maybe unintentionally added to your drink, if you're not in a situation that you are super comfortable with. Um, another thing would be, like Liz was saying, not just the respect, but know your surroundings. So, I would prefer to be in an area that I was super comfortable with, and that I had visited a bunch. Another tip is to make sure you have an exit strategy. So, this, they said exit strategy, I call it the emergency plan. So, it's not just good for those on a first date, but us that are dating our spouses, and dating other people that we're comfortable with. Um, knowing what to do if something bad does tend to happen, that the right people are aware, and can get attention to, like me and Chris have kids, so knowing that our kids are taken care of if something were to happen, and the worst would need to be done, you know, make sure you have those things in place. All right, so does anyone have any other last minute tips for keeping safe while we're dating? Chris: I just want to say that, while I believe that it's very important to be vigilant and to be concerned about safety, it is my belief that most of the world is good. And you should listen to your Spidy sense, and you should not be gullible, or not be taken in easily, but like Janeen, I have traveled to unfamiliar places to meet dates, or just to meet friends. I have, uh, had lots of different experiences, and I've never had one that I would say was bad in the way that made, made me feel unsafe. I have had, you know, experiences where we just didn't click, but that's a whole lot different than feeling unsafe. I don't believe I've ever felt unsafe in any of the dating experiences that I have been in. And uh, I totally agree with Liz's point about respect. I also believe in making sure that I do everything I can to make sure that my, my date feels safe, in whatever situation we're in. Liz: We've been talking a lot about safety, and to do certain things, and not do certain other things possibly, but one thing that I definitely want to make sure that everyone does is to enjoy yourself and have fun. Be brave, put yourself out there, it might seem uncomfortable, at first, but a lot of times, it needs to be uncomfortable, to then become comfortable. And, but definitely have fun, and enjoy each other. Janeen: So, I would like to add, know your boundaries, and keep yourself safe in your boundaries. And, and have communication when you're dating. A safety tip would be if someone's dating you just to have you pay, I think it's really important to discuss who's going to pay, because that's a safety issue. But yeah, have fun. Dating's fun. It depends on the person who you're with, do something that they have an interest in. And then take turns. You do something, they do something, like, go to roads. Go to a concert. Make food. Then, then volunteer. Like, take turns doing what the other wants, and there's so many inexpensive things out there, there are expensive things too, but, and, and date your friends. Make that a priority. Have friend dates. Because all relationships are important. Not just dating a partner but dating your friends. It's important to have fun with them. And, and show them they're a priority. Chris: Well, I want to thank everyone for being here. Thanks, MOe, for putting this together. We're out of time, uh, but this was a really fun discussion. I do want to point out that while Penny Forward is a community, we are not a dating service. But let us know if you want that, we'll figure out how to make that ... (Laughter.) Chris: Budget friendly and safe, all at the same time. Penny Forward is a nonprofit organization founded and led by blind people. Together, we help each other navigate the complicated landscape of personal finance through education, mentoring, and mutual support. The Penny Forward podcast is produced by Chris Peterson and Liz Bottner, with help from MOe Carpenter, audio editing and postproduction is provided by Brynn Lee, at superblink.org. Text transcription is provided by Anne Verduin, and the music is performed and composed by Andre Louis. And all of those people are blind. If you'd like to learn more about Penny Forward, please visit our web site, www.pennyforward.com and join us. Either as a guest member, if you'd like to try out some of our online courses, and uh, our monthly member meetups, and gain early access to every podcast episode, or; we would really love it if you would join us as a paid member, for either $9.99 a month or 99 dollars a year. That gives you access to our weekly Wednesday workshops, and two free one on one financial counseling appointments. Again, our web site is www.pennyforward.com and select the "join Penny Forward" link right near the top of the page. Now, for all of us at the Penny Forward community, I'm Chris Peterson, ... Liz: I'm Liz Bottner, ... MOe: I'm MOe Carpenter, ... Janeen: I'm Janeen Lea. Chris: Thanks, everyone for listening, and have a great week.